Some Kind of Monster

Metallica entered the early 2000s at a crossroads. Without a bass player and without a sense of direction, the remaining members forged on with a therapy coach and a documentary film crew in their quest to complete the 2003 album "St. Anger." The result was the overly long, reality TV-vibe induced, Some Kind of Monster. Co-hosts Jon and Mark make their way through this journey from the military barracks at Presidio to the stage at MTV Icon.

This monster lives... but he's in therapy!

Transcript

Jon (00:01)
Good evening, everybody. Welcome to the Rock and Roll Theatre podcast. Today in the Rock and Roll Theatre, we have some kind of monster, Metallica, but the monster is in therapy.

Hello everybody, welcome back to the Rock and Roll Theatre podcast. My name is John, I'm joined by my co-host and my brother Mark. Each week here at the Rock and Roll Theatre, we take a look at movies, music, pop culture, all sorts of fun stuff. And today we have a little bit of a different thing for us today in the Theatre. We are gonna tackle a documentary, Metallica's Some Kind of Monster.

Mark (00:41)
Some Kind of Monster was released on July 9th, 2004. It was directed by Joe Berlinger and Bruce Sinofsky. It has a runtime of 2 hours and 20 minutes, rated 14A. It is classified as a documentary.

Production for this film was around 4.3 million. Now that's unconfirmed and it only earned just over $2 million in box office revenue. So what was going on here with Metallica at this time? The band was at somewhat of a crossroads. Their bass player Jason had recently quit. There was a lawsuit going on against Napster. So there was some fan backlash happening and the band had recently brought in a therapist to help them.

you know, take things to the next level.

Jon (01:28)
Yeah, this was a different period for Metallica. was 10 years plus, I guess, removed from the heights of the Black Album where they were literally one of the biggest bands in the world. They had two albums in the 90s, Load and Reload, which were a different musical departure for sure for Metallica. Did not sound like that classic thrash sound. And then they kind of towards the end of the 90s were kind of quiet. There wasn't a lot going around in Metallica world that at least I was aware of. And I mean, there always been a great live draw and that continued to always be the case. But this is where we find Metallica here in the start of

the 2000s kind of lost and kind of not knowing what they're doing.

Mark (02:02)
So the original scope of the project was to film the band in the recording studio and it was intended to be two 60-minute sort of infomercial specials, something that might be broadcast on late night television to sort of help promote their new album. But as the filming went on, Metallica's label, Electra, grew concerned over the project's escalating cost. And then they considered turning it into a reality television show.

And you do get this vibe throughout the movie. We'll be mentioning this a few times. It kind of does feel like a reality television show from that era in the early 2000s. By that point, when this came up, the band and the filmmakers envisioned the documentary now as a theatrical release. So you'll see this referred to frequently in the history of this movie, both, you know, formal sources and informal sources will say this is the real life version of Spinal Tap.

Jon (02:59)
We'll take a look at everything here, of course, coming up in a few seconds. But yes, there is a Spinal Tap-ish element of nothing is going right for this band, no matter what they try, no matter what they do. It really seems at a point in Metallica's career where things may be falling apart for good.

Mark (03:15)
On a personal note, I want to mention that I saw this movie in Theatres on its opening weekend. I went to the Sunday night showing and I distinctly remember the ticket clerk at the counter. This was before online tickets were a thing made comments to me about how poorly it was drawing. And I went with a friend. He told us that there isn't going to be anybody else in the audience with us tonight. And he did give me a total for the weekend and it was.

I can't remember the exact number, but it was quite quite low, like definitely less than 25 people all weekend.

Jon (03:50)
I remember when the DVD came out, I hadn't seen it in the Theatre, but someone I knew actually gave me a copy of it. And I was living the time with several roommates and I wanted to watch this and nobody else wanted to watch it. They all left the room.

All right, now before we go any further, there's gonna be spoilers ahead. So if you haven't seen some kind of monster or haven't seen in a long time, hit pause, watch it, we'll be right here waiting for you with all the details. And just a quick plug for all of our stuff here. We're always trying to grow the podcast here. So like, comment, subscribe, five stars, wherever you are in the world, wherever streaming device you listen to it on or whatever social media you wanna catch us on, we'll be there.

So let's jump into some kind of monster.

Mark (04:31)
So the movie opens with some black screens with text describing the context, what's going on with Metallica at that time. It's interspersed with a live montage of Seek and Destroy.

Jon (04:44)
Funny enough, in the very first clip we see a very old clip with Dave Mustaine playing guitar, of course famously of Megadeth, but originally was in Metallica. We'll talk about Dave a lot later.

Mark (04:54)
We learned that Jason has quit, and this was in January of 2001.

Jon (04:58)
Metallica issued no comment.

Mark (05:01)
and we also get introduced to Phil Towle right away.

Jon (05:05)
So here's a nice shock for all the metal fans out there. Metallica are now in family therapy.

Mark (05:11)
We learned that they're renting out the military barracks at Presidio. And what is kind of funny here is that it's very clear that James is in his biker era. He's wearing lots of West Coast choppers merchandise. He's got these funky construction overalls on and there's just a lot of horrible fashion in general. So as I mentioned earlier, the movie is kind of giving a reality television vibe from the early 2000s.

and we get into the studio and we hear the first pieces of what becomes some kind of monster.

Jon (05:44)
I mean, like Mark said, with the fashion and everything going on, this reeks of early 2000s reality television. And they're kind of just picking away at their instruments, playing some riffs. Doesn't seem too structured or organized. Bob Rock is running around, however, who also produced the Black album, seems to be the only one actually working or trying to get anything done. And they flashback to the recording of the Black album, which of course is Enter Sandman, Nothing Else Matters, all those huge hits. And it's really James and Lars rule the show. And they're often quite mean to Bob and Boss

around quite a bit and they have this idea that they're going to try to start writing lyrics together. Up until this point I do believe James Hetfield handled pretty much 100 % of the lyrics.

Mark (06:23)
Yeah, it seems like they're trying to go for a different dynamic this time. They get to a point with their therapist where they end up writing a mission statement on the board of how they're going to approach this.

Jon (06:36)
And it just seems kind of chaotic. Lars and James both have kids and they're running around the studio having fun, playing with all the stuff. And funny enough, both those kids went on to form bands of their own and now tour and play music. So it's kind of fun to see, I think, Castor Hetfield, who's in a metal band now, he's running around, as well as one of two of Lars' sons, Miles, is running around.

Mark (06:57)
So after some time in the studio, they decide that everyone needs to go on vacation.

Jon (07:02)
James goes to Russia, kills a bear. I remember seeing articles early online or what have you that animal rights activists were not cool with this at all. And basically he tells the story of, I missed my son's birthday. We were just drinking vodka in Russia. They play kind of a montage, the song Temptation, which was just on St. Anger of basically James partying. And then we cut to Lars' son, Miles, actually playing the drums. And I suspect he might have a better drum tone than what we hear later on.

Mark (07:31)
so we're back at Presidio, they're doing more work on the album, but it doesn't seem like anything is really coming out of these sessions. And then they have more therapy scenes with Phil, and he's kinda coaching them. I read in some of the research for this film that Phil wasn't even actually a certified psychiatrist, he's just kind of a good coach-er and works with people, but he's not actually certified.

Jon (07:57)
I think he'd had some success coaching sports teams, I do believe, and just kind of being a motivator in the locker room, that sort of thing. Considering some of the advice Phil gives out to the musicians, he feels clearly not a musician, it kind of makes sense that he's not maybe certified to do anything that he's doing.

Mark (08:12)
Okay, so then we move along here and we go to Jason and he explains why he left the band in his interview and he describes his new band called Echobrain and he thought the idea of Metallica getting a therapist to work through their problems was lame and weak.

Jon (08:30)
brain have a very late 90s sort of rock sound in early 2000s I guess it fits right in with that era of music and I kind of went on side with Jason there about the therapy thing I mean he said we've known each other for years we've gone through all these massive heights and the four of us just can't sit down and talk yeah you know I can understand why maybe Jason was getting really frustrated at that point in his career

Mark (08:53)
So the other three members of Metallica, they're back to jamming now and things really are not going well. From what you can hear as an audience viewer, everything is sounding really half-baked and uninspired. They're just cycling through these generic riffs over and over again. It doesn't seem like anything is amounting to much.

Jon (09:14)
They look so bored in these clips. mean Lars barely paying attention, Kirk is randomly guitar soloing in the middle of riffs. And it seems that James is having quite a few drinks as all this is going down and he looks the most annoyed of everybody.

Mark (09:28)
There are a few funny moments though here,

At one point Kirk says it's confusing sounding. And then they go on to have an argument about what is a stock riff. So Lars and James are sort of beefing with each other because Lars called that riff stock. And then James like, well, what does stock even mean? They go back and forth for several minutes on this.

Jon (09:52)
This is the most expensive garage jam band of all time. The amount of time and money that is probably already taken to record basically nothing that we can hear that even resembles a full completed song. And at one point someone says in the background, can we sack Phil? They do not. Lars and James are just going at each other and Kurt is trying to be the peacemaker always. He's trying to be like, guys, let's get back to doing this. Let's get back to it. And James especially seems to be having none of it and appears to be drinking an impressive amount of Jagermeister.

Mark (10:21)
So then we cut to a new scene where they tell us that James has decided to go to rehab. And this is followed by a screen explaining that they never actually returned to Presidio.

Following this, we go to a new scene. This is maybe one of my favourite scenes that we will ever discuss in the history of this podcast. Lars goes to meet his father, Torben, at his new piece of land somewhere in California. So after he meets with Torben and Phil, and they kind of have a heart to heart outside, they decide to go to the studio and listen to some of the completed songs.

So as a viewer, as I'm watching this, I'm getting really excited to see what's about to happen. Like someone other than Metallica and their closest manager is going to actually hear this stuff. So they sit down in the studio and the look on Torben's face as Lars is playing a song over the speakers is just like, what is wrong with you? He has this concerned look. He's staring at Lars like, you know, he's so disappointed.

So the song finishes and then I think it's the producers, it's not actually Lars, someone in the room, I think it's the producers, announces like, you know, so what do we think? And his father Torben starts slowly and he goes, I'm paraphrasing slightly, as someone who would be advising the group, I would tell you to delete that.

Jon (11:57)
This is also one of my favorite scenes in the movie it's become legend in Metallica lore here now. Delete that is a meme. It's basically an insult or a diss to a song you hear and maybe you don't like so much. So Torben hears this song and he says, delete that. And it's really funny. It's not supposed to be to be funny, but it is. Then Lara starts saying that, well, the band listened to the album with Q Prime Phil, their manager from Q Prime, and he thought that they should open the album with this song.

And Torben just shakes his head and disgusts just like no and I think that in a way Lars's dad kind of understands the vibe of what Metallica is better than Phil their therapist and maybe even better than Bob Rock himself was making the record because you know, it's not sounding like maybe it's to say I hate to say it Maybe they should be using more stock riffs and maybe sound more like what a Metallica song would sound like So then we cut to a clip of them playing enter Sandman in Russia and this is a legendary performance. It's on YouTube. It's on everywhere

the crowd is estimated at over a million people and it could very well be more than that. Clearly the biggest show you're ever gonna play. And then after that, Lars starts reminiscing about how the vibe between Dave Mustaine when he first started in the band with James, how bad their interactions were together and how they would basically just dump on Lars and he never felt like he was a part of anything.

Mark (13:17)
Then we cut to a scene where Kirk is riding horses on his ranch. He explains to the camera that he has talked to James a few times. And then we go over to an interview clip with Dave Mustaine. So the interview with Dave Mustaine is shown. He does seem very awkward. I was reading in the research for this film that originally he agreed to be interviewed, but he did not agree in theory to have this interview included in the movies.

and the director just went ahead and put it in anyway.

Jon (13:49)
I'd also heard the same thing too that he felt a little bit ambushed like, I'm supposed to come to meet with the four of you to work out all of our issues from the past and there are many. And instead, you guys are making a movie and this is all being filmed and James isn't there. And that seems awkward as well because it seems like Mustaine and Hetfield had the most issues in the early 80s when they were in the band together. There's stories of them physically fighting each other at various points. Both were drinking a lot and they basically fired Dave for drinking too much

even than them and famously as the story goes they gave Dave a bus ticket they were in New Jersey working on Kill all and sent him home to California and on the way home Dave plod to perform his band Megadeth which of the big four metal bands out there Metallica are obviously number one Megadeth are probably number two they still exist to this day they still tour the world they're very much a big band but they'll never reach the height of Metallica so Dave is still very bitter about this he's explaining to Lars that you guys you know what I mean like I really wish you would have

told me to go to AA or clean up my act a little bit instead of just throwing me on a bus and things of like you know I get heckled to this day by people yelling Metallica at me so no matter how big my number two band is they'll always be that you got fired from Metallica and Dave seems very honest in this interview Lars seems extremely uncomfortable hearing these things and he says well I guess I kind of sort of thought it might have been hard for you but you can tell Lars didn't really consider what happened to Dave once he was fired from Megadeth and Dave basically

boils down to the end says I miss my Danish friend and it's kind of a sad scene and it's probably one of the most the best scene in the movie in my opinion and the most honest scene in the movie.

Mark (15:27)
For sure. mean, again, the fact that James wasn't there though, it seems like they were probably gonna have to do this again. Anyway.

Jon (15:35)
I do believe

they have spoken in the years since and weirdly enough on the new Megadeth album that's out right now, Dave does a cover of Ride the Lightning which is a Metallica song that he claims he wrote parts of. It's been debated forever who wrote what on the first two albums. So I guess Dave wanted to put his own spin on Ride the Lightning and the feud I guess on some level continues to this day.

Mark (15:59)
So we move along now and we go to Jason. He's playing a live show with his new band, Echobrain. And this is very in style with sort of the late 90s, early 2000s, alternative rock meets kind of metal light, I'll call it. They actually go to see the live show. Echobrain is playing with Hopscotch. Kirk and Lars go to the show. The camera crew films Kirk and Lars.

I guess, enjoying the show, I'll call it, and they go backstage to meet up with Jason right after the show. But apparently, Jason has left before they could talk.

Jon (16:39)
Jason has done the Spinal Tap Hello Cleveland and somehow snuck out of the building. it's super awkward. They're asking the other guys in the band, hey, where's Jason? Hey, what's up? They're like, ⁓ I think he left. And there's a clear like Jason probably told him, I don't want to talk to those guys. Don't let him backstage. But I mean, hey, they're Metallica. Who's going to tell him not to go backstage somewhere? And then we cut to Lars is sitting in the empty club with Bob Rock. He seems really bombed out. And he's like, and he has this great line where he gets all the melancholy and goes, Jason is the future.

Metallica is the past.

Mark (17:10)
So we move along now in the film and James has been gone for a total of six months. So at this point when I'm watching, the scenes to me are really starting to feel like unnecessary long and drawn out.

Jon (17:23)
There's a lot of rehash of what's already happened in the first 50 minutes. More debates about the band's future what else can I say? We've already watched the first 50 minutes. Maybe if this was a TV show, you'd be kind of getting caught back up to speed on what you're watching. But for a movie, it just seems unnecessary. It could have been cut.

Mark (17:41)
So, James does return and he does look healthier for what that's worth, so he seems to have made some progress there. And then we go back to more scenes of terrible jamming.

Jon (17:52)
They're debating whether this should be a film, should they keep filming? James seems kind of on the fence about that. Lars is all about, what's good for Metallica. James is very much trying to say this needs to be what's good for me because he's coming back in now and I'm assuming he's been drinking the entire time Metallica has been a band. So for him to do this sober is a very much a new experience for him. And they have a new studio they call HQ, which I do believe that is still Metallica's spot to this very day. They have the HQ studio.

Mark (18:20)
Then we get into the first argument about the noon to four rule. So as James has returned, he's told everyone this new rule, he can only work on the album between noon to four.

Then we start to hear the beginning of what becomes frantic. So that is the lead song off of the St. Anger album. we see some, I guess some humour here. They're playing around with different ideas for lyrics. At one point they say searching for donuts.

Jon (18:49)
this whole collaborative lyric thing, I really get the feeling that maybe just James should write the lyrics, because the stuff they're coming up with, I don't think it's good. Honestly, I don't. James Hetfield has some masterpieces out there. And maybe that should be his job in Metallica is to write the words.

Mark (19:06)
I also thought it was kind of funny in this scene James is wearing a button-up shirt with a dragon on it. So these were kind of popular at the time in terms of fashion. It is kind of funny to see James Hetfield wearing one of these. So again, we're doing more stuff about lyrics. It's actually Kirk who comes up with the lyrics, lifestyle determines my death style, which is ⁓ part of the chorus for frantic. And then we have another argument about the noon to four rule.

Jon (19:35)
Yet again, feels like we did we have to have this scene twice and it's the same vibe. James and Lars are going at it with each other like they always do. And Kirk says at one point says, this has been my last 15 years of my life. It's basically listening to those two argue.

Mark (19:49)
So eventually they get to a point where they're saying, can we just listen to the songs without James there? Lars is sort of throwing a tantrum. He's screaming. one point he says, rules? This is a rock and roll band.

Jon (20:02)
Lars is yelling and he's really mad, he's screaming in James' face. It's a good scene. And then he goes back into what we've already heard about before with Dave Mustaine and James and Lars and their dynamic. And he says, basically, I barely know you, James. Which, as I am a Metallica fan from way back in the day, that's kind of sad to hear. You would think the two guys that have accomplished all that they've accomplished in the world of music, like, they're one of the biggest bands of the world. It's no exaggeration. And to hear them say it to each other is really kind of sad.

Mark (20:32)
So then we move along to their fan experience. And part of the fan experience is they have bass player auditions. I don't know how serious this actually is, or if they just decided it would be something good to film for the cameras. So they have a bunch of fans sign up. You actually see them writing their name on a piece of paper to jam with the band in the jam space.

Jon (20:56)
I they kind just did this as something fun for their fans. I've seen before that Metallica does invite hardcore fans to the HQ for special events and all of these players suck, ⁓ obviously, except for one young woman named Elena who does a great job and then they kind of end the scene where they play the full version of Seek and Destroy with her on bass and she's holding her own with Metallica so I'm sure it was a really cool moment for her.

So we move on to a title card that says unnamed feeling and we go right back into the same argument of James and Lars just can't seem to get on the same page or get along. They bring up Mustaine again and just the same points are all brought up over and over again. it's really surprising that guys that have gone to the heights that they have gone to with their first five records are kind of in this spot they're at today.

Mark (21:41)
One thing I do, I'm not saying I side with Lars 100 % on this, but one point that Lars does make that is something to consider, it's like, if you look at the history of Metallica, Dave Mustaine was only in Metallica for about a year, year and a half. The fact that he's still, this intense on this issue is kind of.

Jon (22:00)
I think a lot of it too is that Mustaine himself brings this up constantly, even to this day in interviews, everywhere he goes, he talks about Metallica constantly. So I feel like Lars and James may have moved on from Dave a long time ago, but it seems like he will never let this go.

Mark (22:19)
We go back into more jamming sessions, but now things are actually starting to sound more like a real album. We're starting to hear that signature frying pan snare drum that is present on St. Anger. That's always fun for people to hear. And then we go into another debate. This time we're arguing about whether or not guitar solos are an outdated concept.

Jon (22:40)
don't think anyone has ever had this conversation other than Metallica. I feel like if a solo is right for the song and it fits, you throw it in there. And Kirk makes a very good point of saying, we don't need to follow trends. We're Metallica. We make the trends. But in this case, I think he's outvoted and there's barely to no guitar solos on St. Anger. And then they go into showing us about this radio promo that they have to record and they're really unhappy about it. They're like, would you two do this? And I don't know why they even bothered showing this in the documentary. It goes on way too long.

Okay, we get it, you don't wanna film this or record this commercial for Satellite Radio, I think it is at that point, it's coming into vogue. The only thing of note is that Lars is wearing a Philadelphia Flyers hockey team baseball hat, which I think is a really odd fashion choice.

Mark (23:22)
Wash your back so you don't stab mine. That's the line that James keeps shouting out. He's also wearing one of those tacky cowboy style trucker hats that were kind of popular in the early 2000s.

Again, things are feeling unnecessarily long and drawn out. We see, I guess, some relief with a jet ski montage. The band is having a day off.

Jon (23:42)
We have now passed the day 456 moment of this recording of this album. So that's, we're well over a year into this. And this montage of Jet Skiing, I don't know what it's supposed to prove. Okay, yes, you have money and you can go jet skiing. I don't know. But then they mentioned that Jason is now in the Quebec metal band Voivod, which is a band, I live in Canada. I've seen Voivod play many times. And it was kind of a big surprise that Jason joined Voivod.

Mark (24:10)
then we get a flashback to Cliff in Sweden.

Jon (24:15)
I was as tragically as the story is Cliff Burton died September 26 1986. They were in Sweden and there was a bus crash The driver hit some ice. There's a lot of speculation online that maybe the driver was intoxicated Who knows anyway, the end result was that cliff tragically the bus fell on top of him and killed him I got into metallic in about 1987 I want to say so this was very fresh and new so when I was I first got I think ride the lightning first and then master and then kill them all and then garage days came out and there was a different

guy on the cover. And that's how I kind of learned. I just assumed that Cliff Burton was in Metallica when I first started getting into them.

then also we go back to the studio here and Phil is being Phil and trying to motivate people. And I think Lars says to him, would you like to play the drums,

Mark (24:59)
We're going through the Napster protests. So fans were very upset with Metallica for them placing a lawsuit against Napster. we see scenes of people in the streets smashing CDs, holding up signs, yelling at the camera.

Jon (25:14)
There's also a cartoon made around the time spoofing Lars Ulrich for his whole Napster thing. The cartoon is actually pretty funny. And they show Lars like standing in a courthouse reading out screen names, which must have been hilarious because, you know, screen names were like back in early 2000s. And these are the people he wanted to, I don't know, sue, I guess, for stealing Metallica's music, which would be impossible. And it was a really bad time for Metallica. People did. I even I thought this was super lame. You don't sue your fans. They're downloading the songs because they like them.

Mark (25:42)
So we move along, the next scene is called Shoot Me Again, so another title from St. Anger. And what we're doing here is we're going through kind of like a prelude to their actual tour schedule.

Jon (25:53)
And it's funny, because this is the tour schedule that they now follow, where they play Fridays, usually Fridays and Sunday nights, sometimes Friday, Saturday, in one city, doing two nights, and then during the week they don't play. And the whole thing packs up and moves to a different city. And for the recent tour, which has been going on for about three years now, that's been the schedule.

Mark (26:10)
More work on the album. We learned that only four songs out of 30 got all band members' to be included on the album.

We go to another scene. Lars is selling art. Originally, the band wanted these scenes to be cut from the movie, but Lars insisted that it's part of who he is.

Jon (26:29)
It is, I guess, part of who he is. He's also extremely intoxicated as he's, selling his paintings and the whole scene's just weird. He's dropping champagne glasses and it just, it just reeks of, have tons of money, excess, what have you. I can totally see why the rest of the band didn't want this in the movie.

Mark (26:45)
We're in the home stretch now. We move on to Metallica being featured on MTV Icon.

Jon (26:53)
MTV program that would honor an artist. think they did it like once a year. And immediately Kirk says like, what's Jason's role in this? And the other two are Lars and James are just like, he has no role in this at all.

Mark (27:04)
I think they say a line something like, when he quit Metallica, he gave up any right that he had or something along those lines. Yeah.

Jon (27:10)
Yeah, to call himself an icon. That was probably what they

said.

Mark (27:15)
Then we move on to, so before they go on Icon, we have to get a bass player, right? So we have a second round of bass player auditions. This one seems a little bit more serious than the first one. So there's a few different players and it's Robert Trujillo who's in Suicidal Tendencies at the time. He seems to be getting the most camera time compared to the other players. Now obviously since the movie actually came out, since he was chosen to be in the band,

Jon (27:21)
Yes.

Mark (27:43)
We all knew it was him, but you can kind of see it playing out with the editing footage that he's being featured more. He plays Battery, which is probably my favourite Metallica song, live with the band in the jam space, and it's sounding really good.

Jon (27:58)
It sounds amazing. Rob Trujillo is an excellent bass player. He's played with Suicidal, course, Infectious Grooves, Ozzy Osbourne. I do believe he does a lot of jazz recording and things like that as well. The guy can play. That is without question. He plays Battery, which is one of the fastest Metallica songs with his fingers. No pick. So they sound great and they seem very into him. It's all working really well. But I also heard a story, well, from Rob Trujillo himself in an interview that the night before they did the audition, because they'd known each other, they'd toured, they'd hung out before.

that Lars took him out drinking And the next morning he woke up at Lars' house extremely hungover. The shirt he's wearing the audition he borrowed from Lars actually there's one scene where he does look a little tired when they're around talking to each other. Also on a fun note I saw Suicidal Tendencies open for Metallica on the summer sanitarium tour in 1994.

Mark (28:59)
So what's interesting to note here is that all of the other players in the audition looked really uncomfortable in their footage, except for maybe Pepper from Corrosion of Conformity.

Jon (29:10)
Pepper is a personal friend, I do believe, Metallica's, of course, they've toured with Corrosion of Conformity or CoC, as they are commonly known as. And he seems to have the right vibe too. He's hanging in there. It would have been interesting as him as the bass player as well. I mean, now we can't really pitch them without Rob, but I think Pepper would make an interesting addition to Metallica. And like Mark said, some of other players seem uncomfortable. We don't know if that was an editing choice or not. The guy from The Cult seems to be doing all right, but we don't know how many takes or what was really going on that

But ⁓ obviously they went with Rob Trujillo.

Mark (29:44)
So Rob is chosen and they give him a $1 million advance. So he's got to be happy about that.

Jon (29:50)
And on a different note, we learned this time that Jason Newsted is now playing for Ozzy and Rob had been filling in as Ozzy's bass player. So they essentially have now swapped places.

Mark (29:59)
It's time for some more debate. So now we're going to have a session about maybe we should end the performance coaching with Phil. So when Phil hears this, he looks really uncomfortable. He knows that his time is done.

Jon (30:15)
Phil was like, well, we were kind of thinking about buying a house out here and they're like, don't do that, Phil. Phil way overstepped his boundary. Metallica's done with him. The therapy sessions have ended for Phil. And for us, thankfully.

Mark (30:28)
Now we're on stage at MTV Icon.

Jon (30:31)
I don't like that they come out wearing suits. doesn't, scream Metallica vibe to me. Rob he won the lottery basically. He got to join one of the biggest bands in the world. So he's having a great time.

Mark (30:40)
We go back to the studio for a little bit more work. This time we're looking at album names. I guess this is a funny scene. We're looking at some names they have written on a whiteboard. They have best dressed chicken in town, sarcasm with meaning, unbridled. We see Saint Anger and how it's strong.

Jon (31:02)
My favourite was floods of vomit.

Mark (31:04)
now that we see St. Anger is the title, we have to go to our St. Anger video shoot montage.

Jon (31:11)
The video is essentially Johnny Cash's Folsom Prison Blues. They go and they play in a prison. To the prisoners, there's a whole part about them being brought into the prison and everything. And the inmates seem to really enjoy it. But yes, to me, I was immediately like, Johnny Cash, Folsom Prison.

Mark (31:26)
It's pretty good footage though. does look like it would have been a pretty cool live show to actually see. Finally, finally, we reach day 715 of filming.

Jon (31:30)
Yeah. So now we're all.

I'm not sure if it was intentional, but on day 715, everyone seems to be wearing a Hawaiian shirt. So I guess it was Hawaiian shirt day.

Mark (31:47)
We move into the closing of the film, which is a live show montage of Frantic, the first song on St. Anger.

Jon (31:54)
It's to a humongous festival crowd. Metallica are still Metallica. They're still on top of the world.

Mark (32:00)
Then we see credits. This movie actually had its own website called somekindofmonster.com. I visited that recently. It defaults to the main Metallica website now.

so now looking at the soundtrack, some kind of monster did have an official soundtrack. It was an EP of mostly live songs. This was released on July 13th, 2004. Its genre is rock, its style is heavy metal, it is on Electra Records. Let's cut through these pretty quickly and then we'll go over and take a look at what we've been talking about for the last bulk of the time here, St. Anger. So starting with some kind of monster.

First song, Some Kind of Monster.

Jon (32:41)
I'll get into all the details about it once we go through the actual album, maybe the strongest song off the record that, in my opinion, spoiler alert, I don't find very strong Metallica record. it is the title of the movie, so if you're going to have an unofficial soundtrack, it's on there.

Mark (32:55)
It's 825. Oh man, that's long.

Jon (32:58)
We will be talking a lot about lengths of songs here in a few seconds.

Mark (33:02)
Then we get into some live cuts. The Four Horsemen, Damage Inc, Leper Messiah.

Jon (33:08)
What really sticks out to me is they did Damage Inc. which is one they don't play live very often. I hate to say it there's a lot of live Metallic albums out there they have a lot of them have the exact same songs on it. So Damage Inc. was a little bit of a surprise and I did give it a full listen.

Mark (33:22)
Motor Breath, I'll note covered by legendary punk band DOA, followed by Ride the Lightning, Hit the Lights.

Jon (33:31)
just three classic Metallica songs. The versions are good. They sound good. I do believe it was a chord in Paris. There's a ton of live versions out there of all three of those songs. So pick the one you like, I guess.

Mark (33:41)
We close it out with an edited version of some kind of monster. This one's only 416.

Jon (33:47)
Thank God for that.

Mark (33:50)
I will note though in the credits it is Robert Trujillo on tracks 2 through 7.

Jon (33:55)
okay, so it was recorded after Rob joined the band.

Mark (33:59)
Moving on to the album that the movie is based on, St. Anger was released in June 2003. Its genre is rock, its style is heavy metal. There are 11 tracks here. Let's get to it. First up, Frantic.

Jon (34:12)
the one we heard a lot of in the movie. On a personal note, I listened to this on YouTube, which Lars would not approve of, as well as I had an incognito mode because I did not want these songs in my normal algorithm. Sorry, Metallica. So we start off with frantic. It's we heard a lot of pieces of it in the movie. The thing that really jumps out to everybody is what is the deal with the sound of the snare drum? It literally sounds like someone's hitting a frying pan with a wooden spoon. The bass sounds good. The vocals sound really weird. I don't like the cadence. It's a very

noisy song he says my lifestyle determines my death style so many times it's it's six minutes and the last two minutes are the exact same as the rest of the song you just could easily cut down to three and a half four minutes and i didn't like the outro either

Mark (34:56)
The song is the title track, Saint Anger.

Jon (34:59)
Like we talked about, was the title track they did the prison video for. Yet again, the snare is awful. I can't deal with it.

The production has just gone so bad. There could be a good song in there, but I can't hear it under all the noise that the drum kit is. The chorus is the only thing I like. I think it's pretty good. The lyrics, I'm not feeling madly in anger with you. Like that does not seem like a strong Metallica lyric. Also, it's seven, eight minutes long. They cut it down a little bit for the video and the ending kind of feels like, I don't know, some sort of, you know, a speech you would give in rehab or something like that. It's the whole vibe is weird.

Mark (35:37)
Moving along, some kind of monster.

Jon (35:39)
8 minutes, the intro I find unexpired, the drums are all over the place, it's very murky, similar lyrics as what we had in first two songs, it's kind of the refrain for some kind of monster. I'm tempted to fast forward this song honestly, but I did listen to the whole thing, yet again it seemed way longer than it needed to be.

Mark (36:02)
window.

Jon (36:03)
Has a bizarre drum intro yet again sounds like they're jamming doesn't sound like it was a fully polished song But here it is. There's a metaphor about looking in the mirror, but it's not master of puppets guys And I don't think there's any bass at all in some of the verses It just does you know, the grooves just not there for me

Mark (36:23)
invisible kid.

Jon (36:25)
Another eight minute epic. The groove's okay on this one a little bit. I liked it little bit better than what I'd heard up to this point. The verses are all right. Way less production would help. It's too many parts. It feels like it should be over in four minutes. There's a bizarre bridge that goes on for a long time and just kind of chugs along till the end. Very generic start. Maybe a guitar solo would have fit here. Don't know, maybe. ⁓

Mark (36:46)
My world.

Jon (36:54)
Just you know how James says sucker is kind of interesting and it made me laugh a little bit I wasn't into this one at all

Mark (37:01)
Shoot me again.

Jon (37:04)
We did hear parts of this in the movie, do believe. It's a very loud intro into a very quiet verse. I can't hear the bass. It's kind of like a dis track. They're mad and they're shooting back at people.

Mark (37:17)
Sweet Amber.

Jon (37:19)
This one has a guitar intro to it, but it's the same problem. Normal production maybe would have sounded a lot, maybe like this song a lot more. It's just more of the same. I'm not feeling very many dynamics. There's not much to say about this one.

Mark (37:31)
The unnamed feeling.

Jon (37:34)
sounds like they're just jamming at band practice. It's okay, everybody's just, I don't know, doesn't feel like it's being very serious. There's some weird vocal effects on it. I wrote down a mess.

Mark (37:46)
Purify.

Jon (37:47)
This one's only five minutes, so this is maybe the short- is it the shortest song on there, Mark? I'll defer to you. ⁓ The frying pan's okay. The frying pan is on full tilt now, full on frying pan. I wrote here, I thought I'd already heard the worst. I was wrong.

Mark (37:54)
It is.

Moving on to the longest song, the closer at 8 minutes 48 seconds, all within my hands.

Jon (38:10)
A good thing can say about all of my hands is that that's the name of Metallica's charity foundation. They do a ton of good work out there for people. So I know I'm being a little hard on Metallica right now, overall, I think they're they're overall good human beings who are out there trying to help people. So that's really cool. They always have food drives and all sorts of things when they roll into town. is I know a lot of fans like this one. I feel like it was redone with different production. Maybe some of those parts taken out. At one point, he's just screaming kill, kill, kill. And I just

It was a struggle for me not to turn it off.

Mark (38:51)
So looking at the critical reception for some kind of monster, right now it has an 88 % on its tomato meter and an 83 % on its popcorn meter on Rotten Tomatoes. So I think that's a little higher than expected considering that this film is not always looked at highly, even among fans.

Jon (39:10)
was a little surprised to see how high it was as well when you added that into the notes here. I was thinking much lower I'm someone who enjoyed Metallica's first albums a lot and I watched it almost as if like this is spinal tap. So I probably wouldn't give it an 88 or an A grading, but hey, I guess the critics did like it. And I think maybe at the time too, there wasn't a lot of reality rock and roll movies out there to base it against. So it was kind of new in that regard.

Mark (39:37)
It got a 7.5 out of 10 on Internet Movie Database. think that's a little bit more realistic. Entertainment Weekly gave it an A, writing that it's one of the most revelatory rock portraits ever made.

Jon (39:42)
Yeah, me too.

its interesting rock portrait.

Mark (39:52)
While I was researching the critical reception of this movie, I found an interview with the directors on Loudersound.com and it was pretty interesting. It talked about how they had a private screening for Metallica at Star Wars filmmaker George Lucas's Skywalker Ranch. So Metallica watched the first screening of the documentary, Some Kind of Monster, in total silence. And apparently they hated the film so much.

that it debated locking it away forever in order for no one else to ever see it.

Jon (40:25)
Considering how they come off in some scenes in this movie, I can understand why maybe they thought so. And I was a little bit surprised that they let this come out. I mean, they had the ultimate say and there's definitely moments where, you're shocked you're watching Metallica.

Mark (40:39)
There's a quote in the interview that I'd like to read. So, the movie plays. It's a three hours plus screening. There was literally not a peep through the whole screening. Not a laugh, not a moment of recognition, just total silence. And it wasn't feeling good.

Jon (40:56)
That must have been the most awkward moment of your life to watch that Metallica movie for the first time with Metallica sitting beside you and they hate it.

Mark (41:05)
But it doesn't end on a bad note here because apparently later, back at the band HQ, it was James who spoke up and said the directors should proceed with releasing it and Lars gave them some affirmation.

Jon (41:18)
Surprising and considering that James seemed the most against being filmed all the time during the actual process.

All right, we have a tradition here on the Rock and Roll Theatre podcast that each movie we encounter, my brother Mark digs up a one star review. And what we got for us this week.

Mark (41:35)
We have a review from Internet Movie Database. It's one out of ten. It's by Mr. Durden69 from June 30th, 2004. The title of the review is Kill the Monster. I will do my best to read it with grammatical errors included. Isn't it it time for these guys to go away? Nothing new here.

Metallica has not put out a great record since and justice for all with black pushing their efforts Maybe they will produce the soundtrack for the next flash Gordon film at best That's the only way I can take Metallica seriously It's hard to believe that anyone still cares what these overrated musicians are doing now sad thing is this film will make money from the in quotes

general public who can't seem to progress into the now. Take a bow guys, the show is over. Six people found that helpful, seven thumbs down.

Jon (42:48)
Okay, I might give that review a thumbs down myself as well. The idea that Metallica should quit what they're doing to score a Flash Gordon movie seems like the most insane thing I've heard so far in this process of studying some kind of monster.

Mark (43:01)
So looking at the lasting legacy of some kind of monster. As I mentioned earlier, it is frequently referred to as the real life version of Spinal Tap, which is maybe my actual favourite movie of all time. So I do enjoy some kind of monster in that context. I would say it is a must watch for anyone who knows Metallica, even if it's only a little bit. I myself, I'm not a giant Metallica fan, but I do really love this subject matter for a film.

It's also worth noting that Metallica re-released the film that included a 25 minute bonus documentary. I have not seen that. This was in 2014 to celebrate its 10th anniversary.

Jon (43:44)
I like some kind of monster is a must watch for Metallica fans and just fans of music and movies in general. is like Spinal Tap in a way it's fascinating because we just, you even if you're a passing music fan, you know, understand man, you know, probably nothing else matters. Metallica have been a huge, huge band, arguably one of the top two or three bands ever to record and tour and make music. So to see them on this level of dysfunction, almost, you almost feel a little bit guilty watching of like, ⁓ man, that's not how I thought rock stars were

live in and I certainly didn't think Metallica were like that. I'm a bigger fan of Metallica than my brother but I'll be honest after the first four albums in the 80s there's not much in the catalog I like. There's the odd song here or there but really nothing does it for me like those first four thrash albums. I understand they had to grow and they had to change and that's fine and they wouldn't quite frankly be the stadium monster draw they are today without Bob Rock's help. He really kicked that in motion with the black album and I guess they're trying to rekindle that for St. Anger but I

It

just fell flat and failed on so many levels. unlike what that reviewer thought earlier, Metallica are as big as they ever were, if not bigger. Their M72 tour for their latest album has been going on for I think three years now, has probably played every major city in the world. Soccer stadiums, football stadiums It is a humongous tour and they're packing the house every night. Recently, the Netflix show Stranger Things featured the song Master of Puppets and a whole

new generation of people got into Metallica through that show. So I still think they're still relevant. I still think they're a force in music even to this day. There's rumours of them doing the Sphere in Las Vegas next year and that's only held up for the highest of the high bands. So Metallica weathered the storm. They got through this part of their career and came out the other side of it. But I definitely think some kind of monster shows just when two or three people just break down completely in communication and what the end result is.

Mark (45:39)
That was some kind of monster.

Jon (45:44)
Thank you for joining us today in the Rock and Roll Theatre. As always, wherever you're at in the world, like, subscribe, click, follow, download, find us on the socials. All those things really help a small podcast like us. Thanks a lot and the Theatre's closed till next time.